Discussion:
Customizing a Dnepr
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sean_q
2012-12-20 12:59:05 UTC
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I have two Dnepr motorcycles with sidecars, an MT-10 and an MT-11.
Only the MT-11 runs. However, it can attain 50 mph max, making it
usable only in town.

I bought the MT-10 with the intention of modifying it for better
performance. Meaning a more powerful motor and probably a mod
for chain drive.

My purist friends are scandalized at the notion of "ruining" such
a vintage classic. I believe the word "butchering" was also used.
However I've never heard them express such negativity at the practice
of making a hot rod out of a 1932 Ford (as in "The Little Deuce Coupe"
by the Beachboys). A yellow one appears in _American Graffiti_.

Meanwhile I have a Triumph swing arm that looks like it would fit
the Dnepr frame and a derelict Yamaha XS650 with a running motor
(which is rated at about double the horsepower of an MT-10).

ps. My preference would be to put a diesel motor in the thing.
I've seen pix of exactly that on the Net. However I'm not certain
how to go about it, and if there's too much involved I'd be
satisfied using the Yamaha motor. Any advice appreciated.

TIA, Sean Quinlan
c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
2012-12-20 13:19:02 UTC
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Post by sean_q
I have two Dnepr motorcycles with sidecars, an MT-10 and an MT-11.
Only the MT-11 runs. However, it can attain 50 mph max, making it
usable only in town.
It should do a bit better than that, but not a lot. There are mods
including better carbs and higher compression etc available but
dont expect massive improvements.
Post by sean_q
I bought the MT-10 with the intention of modifying it for better
performance. Meaning a more powerful motor and probably a mod
for chain drive.
Meanwhile I have a Triumph swing arm that looks like it would fit
the Dnepr frame and a derelict Yamaha XS650 with a running motor
(which is rated at about double the horsepower of an MT-10).
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
Whatever turns you on .......
--
05 Yamaha YP400 Majesty
75 Suzuki GT750 Kettle
81 Suzuki GT200 X5
++May contain nuts.++
sean_q
2012-12-20 16:55:39 UTC
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Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
It might be, as the BMW engine has the same mounting bolt
pattern. Then there's the problem of matching it to the Soviet
transmission.

Using the Beemer tranny creates another problem -- the driveshaft
spins in the wrong direction for the Dnepr's rear hub.

SQ
Ace
2012-12-20 17:10:24 UTC
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Post by sean_q
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
It might be, as the BMW engine has the same mounting bolt
pattern. Then there's the problem of matching it to the Soviet
transmission.
Using the Beemer tranny creates another problem -- the driveshaft
spins in the wrong direction for the Dnepr's rear hub.
Easy - just put it in reverse gear.
c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
2012-12-20 17:32:35 UTC
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Post by sean_q
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
It might be, as the BMW engine has the same mounting bolt
pattern. Then there's the problem of matching it to the Soviet
transmission.
Using the Beemer tranny creates another problem -- the driveshaft
spins in the wrong direction for the Dnepr's rear hub.
So use a BMW hub and wheel. Which will lead you to the next gotcha.
Whichever way you go you are going to lose the 2WD drive to the chair.
Maybe you could find a modern russian 2wd combination which has
been written off as a donor for a complete drive system.
--
05 Yamaha YP400 Majesty
75 Suzuki GT750 Kettle
81 Suzuki GT200 X5
++May contain nuts.++
PipL
2012-12-20 21:09:38 UTC
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Post by sean_q
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
It might be, as the BMW engine has the same mounting bolt
pattern. Then there's the problem of matching it to the Soviet
transmission.
Using the Beemer tranny creates another problem -- the driveshaft
spins in the wrong direction for the Dnepr's rear hub.
So the engines rotate in different directions, and one has a 2- and one a
three-shaft box, then? It's the only way I can see that problem occurring,
unless one has some really weird bevel box arrangement.
--
Pip
Mark Olson
2012-12-20 22:24:37 UTC
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Post by PipL
Post by sean_q
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
It might be, as the BMW engine has the same mounting bolt
pattern. Then there's the problem of matching it to the Soviet
transmission.
Using the Beemer tranny creates another problem -- the driveshaft
spins in the wrong direction for the Dnepr's rear hub.
So the engines rotate in different directions, and one has a 2- and one a
three-shaft box, then? It's the only way I can see that problem occurring,
unless one has some really weird bevel box arrangement.
I honestly don't see how the driveshafts can possibly turn the opposite
way, assuming they are on the RHS of both bikes. That's assuming normal
style gears with the pinion at the front of the final drive, not worm
gears.
PipL
2012-12-20 23:23:34 UTC
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Post by Mark Olson
I honestly don't see how the driveshafts can possibly turn the opposite
way, assuming they are on the RHS of both bikes. That's assuming normal
style gears with the pinion at the front of the final drive, not worm
gears.
A swift Google suggests that the bevel is on the right on at least some models
of both BMW and Dnepr. Can only be number of shafts if true - actually,
2-shaft is unlikely because you wouldn't get enough offset to clear the wheel,
but maybe 3 vs 4 shaft arrangements, unless there's something truly weird in
one gearbox.

I'm intrigued.
--
Pip
Jordan
2012-12-22 09:49:05 UTC
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Post by PipL
Post by Mark Olson
I honestly don't see how the driveshafts can possibly turn the opposite
way, assuming they are on the RHS of both bikes. That's assuming normal
style gears with the pinion at the front of the final drive, not worm
gears.
A swift Google suggests that the bevel is on the right on at least some models
of both BMW and Dnepr. Can only be number of shafts if true - actually,
2-shaft is unlikely because you wouldn't get enough offset to clear the wheel,
but maybe 3 vs 4 shaft arrangements, unless there's something truly weird in
one gearbox.
I'm intrigued.
I knew someone who put a 1000cc /7 BMW engine in a Dnepr, and it went
very fast with sidecar.
He used the Russian gearbox, which he said needed a little machining to
match up with the German engine.
I don't know how long it would last though, with so much more power
going through the bevel drive especially. The Dnepr of the time was
pretty cheap and cheerful - maybe still are?
Grimly Curmudgeon
2012-12-27 10:13:33 UTC
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Post by Jordan
I don't know how long it would last though, with so much more power
going through the bevel drive especially. The Dnepr of the time was
pretty cheap and cheerful - maybe still are?
Cheapness didn't mean shite, back then, from the USSR. Their goods
were sold in the West to obtain foreign currency and often were the
best of what came off the production line, designated for export.
Look at Russian lenses.
SteveH
2012-12-27 10:41:22 UTC
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Post by Grimly Curmudgeon
Post by Jordan
I don't know how long it would last though, with so much more power
going through the bevel drive especially. The Dnepr of the time was
pretty cheap and cheerful - maybe still are?
Cheapness didn't mean shite, back then, from the USSR. Their goods
were sold in the West to obtain foreign currency and often were the
best of what came off the production line, designated for export.
Look at Russian lenses.
There was something along those lines in the Museum of East German Life.

'What do we do with all the quality control rejects?'
'Sell them on the domestic market.'
--
SteveH
Jordan
2012-12-27 11:18:24 UTC
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Post by Grimly Curmudgeon
Post by Jordan
I don't know how long it would last though, with so much more power
going through the bevel drive especially. The Dnepr of the time was
pretty cheap and cheerful - maybe still are?
Cheapness didn't mean shite, back then, from the USSR. Their goods
were sold in the West to obtain foreign currency and often were the
best of what came off the production line, designated for export.
Look at Russian lenses.
I never owned one. A friend bought one new, and though is served him
alright for 10k km before he sold it, I remember he said some parts were
pretty dodgy. For example, the brakes only worked reasonably well after
the shoes had been relined. It was very slow with a sidecar, and caused
traffic problems going uphill. Was it shitey? I think so, but could be
fun too - in the way that you can like something if it's different and
really cheap, as they used to be. I've never seen a high mileage Russian
bike.
From what I've heard, no flies on their optics.
ts
2012-12-31 20:59:29 UTC
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Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
Post by sean_q
I have two Dnepr motorcycles with sidecars, an MT-10 and an MT-11.
Only the MT-11 runs. However, it can attain 50 mph max, making it
usable only in town.
(snip)
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
Post by sean_q
Meanwhile I have a Triumph swing arm that looks like it would fit
the Dnepr frame and a derelict Yamaha XS650 with a running motor
(which is rated at about double the horsepower of an MT-10).
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
Whatever turns you on .......
http://tinyurl.com/ural-harley
--
ts // scrap vehicle to send e-mail
80/7, 750SS, K-RS 6v
Rob Kleinschmidt
2013-01-01 03:48:34 UTC
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Post by ts
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
Post by sean_q
I have two Dnepr motorcycles with sidecars, an MT-10 and an MT-11.
Only the MT-11 runs. However, it can attain 50 mph max, making it
usable only in town.
(snip)
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
Post by sean_q
Meanwhile I have a Triumph swing arm that looks like it would fit
the Dnepr frame and a derelict Yamaha XS650 with a running motor
(which is rated at about double the horsepower of an MT-10).
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
Whatever turns you on .......
http://tinyurl.com/ural-harley
Really wondering WTF they did for a clutch.

BMW hangs the clutch mostly off the flywheel and
crankshaft, while Harley hangs it off the gearbox.

Not sure with stuff this old, but if it's anything like
newer stuff, I can't quite figure out how you'd
marry the Harley engine and BMW gearbox.
Jordan
2013-01-01 07:20:17 UTC
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Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Post by ts
http://tinyurl.com/ural-harley
Really wondering WTF they did for a clutch.
BMW hangs the clutch mostly off the flywheel and
crankshaft, while Harley hangs it off the gearbox.
Not sure with stuff this old, but if it's anything like
newer stuff, I can't quite figure out how you'd
marry the Harley engine and BMW gearbox.
Looks like there's an interface between the HD motor and Ural gearbox.
We can see the housing, and inside that will be a crankshaft to
clutch/gearbox adaptor.
Rob Kleinschmidt
2013-01-01 17:33:24 UTC
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Post by Jordan
Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Post by ts
http://tinyurl.com/ural-harley
Really wondering WTF they did for a clutch.
BMW hangs the clutch mostly off the flywheel and
crankshaft, while Harley hangs it off the gearbox.
Not sure with stuff this old, but if it's anything like
newer stuff, I can't quite figure out how you'd
marry the Harley engine and BMW gearbox.
Looks like there's an interface between the HD motor and Ural gearbox.
We can see the housing, and inside that will be a crankshaft to
clutch/gearbox adaptor.
Agreed, but the type and location of the clutch are still
not clear. Doesn't look like it's big enough to accommodate
a BMW single plate clutch and it looks a little tricky
trying to hang a multi-plate clutch between the Harley
crank and the Ural transmission, considering that
neither one was designed to accept it.
Jordan
2013-01-01 21:53:21 UTC
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Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Post by Jordan
Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Post by ts
http://tinyurl.com/ural-harley
Really wondering WTF they did for a clutch.
BMW hangs the clutch mostly off the flywheel and
crankshaft, while Harley hangs it off the gearbox.
Not sure with stuff this old, but if it's anything like
newer stuff, I can't quite figure out how you'd
marry the Harley engine and BMW gearbox.
Looks like there's an interface between the HD motor and Ural gearbox.
We can see the housing, and inside that will be a crankshaft to
clutch/gearbox adaptor.
Agreed, but the type and location of the clutch are still
not clear. Doesn't look like it's big enough to accommodate
a BMW single plate clutch and it looks a little tricky
trying to hang a multi-plate clutch between the Harley
crank and the Ural transmission, considering that
neither one was designed to accept it.
Ural has 2 plate clutch, so could be more compact than on a BMW. Looks
like the rear part of the Russian engine has been cut and grafted on
here as well, which is likely to enable standard Ural clutch arrangement
the simplest way.
Having seen H-D gears, I don't think the Ural gearbox is going to last
too long if used regularly.
Bill_h
2013-01-01 04:35:21 UTC
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Post by ts
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
Post by sean_q
I have two Dnepr motorcycles with sidecars, an MT-10 and an MT-11.
Only the MT-11 runs. However, it can attain 50 mph max, making it
usable only in town.
(snip)
Post by c***@NOSPAM.netunix.com
Post by sean_q
Meanwhile I have a Triumph swing arm that looks like it would fit
the Dnepr frame and a derelict Yamaha XS650 with a running motor
(which is rated at about double the horsepower of an MT-10).
It would probably be a lot simpler to drop a BMW boxer engine in.
Whatever turns you on .......
http://tinyurl.com/ural-harley
Someone's finally found a use for a Shovelhead motor :)

Bill_h
Grimly Curmudgeon
2013-01-02 14:49:33 UTC
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Post by Bill_h
Post by ts
http://tinyurl.com/ural-harley
Someone's finally found a use for a Shovelhead motor :)
All the boatanchor market is saturated.
Twibil
2013-01-02 19:46:25 UTC
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Post by Grimly Curmudgeon
All the boatanchor market is saturated.
Well, it *is* underwater, you know.

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