Harley Davidson Engine Reliability?

[Stanley DeFisher]

I'm curious about Harley reliability and am unable to find much on
this matter. I'm trying to find out, perhaps from riders and/or
mechanics (preferably unbiased opinions if they exist), if there are
inherent weaknesses, besides vibration and associated bearing problems,
that necessitate top end rebuilds of Harley Davidson motors more often
than their German or Japanese counterparts. For example, do pushrod
actuated engines, in motorcycle applications, have more frequent
maintenance needs, or necessitate rebuilding more often than dual
overhead cam motors? I have heard some ridiculously low numbers quoted
for top end rebuild times on custom Harleys, but have no experience with
this matter and suspect that short times in between top end rebuilds may
often be a function of motors which have been heavily breathed on and
are, by their very nature, mechanically less reliable than a lower
horsepower motor. I'm not looking to get flamed and am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance, I'm just looking for info. Thanks.

[harrison]

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm curious about Harley reliability and am unable to find much on
this matter.

Well you've come to the right place.
My friend's Road Glide ('98) has around 110,000 Km. No problems.
My CB750 ('75) has 34.,000 Km. No problems.

Therefore:
Harleys go faster than Hondas, 22,000 Km per year versus less than 1,300 Km
per year for a Honda
Harleys can travel three times the distance than Hondas without trouble.

Did I miss anything?

Dave

[Sounds Like A Porsche]

Post by harrison

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm curious about Harley reliability and am unable to find much on
this matter.

Well you've come to the right place.
My friend's Road Glide ('98) has around 110,000 Km. No problems.
My CB750 ('75) has 34.,000 Km. No problems.

Harleys go faster than Hondas, 22,000 Km per year versus less than 1,300 Km
per year for a Honda
Harleys can travel three times the distance than Hondas without trouble.
Did I miss anything?
Dave

Yes. You've missed lots. You have to wait till all the data comes in.

I suspect there are a few high mileage *non* Harley bikes out there. Some
that broke, some that didn't. Same with the Harley machines. In the end
I'll bet everything is pretty much the same with the modern machines with
only the odd lemon.

--
Dave
'75 Honda CB750 K5 (Beautiful)
Quiet (stock exhaust), till you get on it
Then she...
Sounds Like A Porsche

[bowman]

Post by Stanley DeFisher
For example, do pushrod
actuated engines, in motorcycle applications, have more frequent
maintenance needs, or necessitate rebuilding more often than dual
overhead cam motors?

Assuming a stock top end, there is no specific maintenance. This cannot be
said about many OHC engines. I'm on an elist where a FAQ is: "do I really
really have to have the valves adjusted at 500 miles. The dealer charges
$150?" This questions sometimes occurs in sequence with "did the dealer
really adjust the valves?"

Considering the joys of maintaining a four cylinder, shim under bucket
design with four or more valves per cylinder, I'd hazard a guess far more
of these are out of adjustment.

Most BMWs, btw, are pushrod engines. Almost vestigial pushrods, but there
just the same.

If the engine has been modified, all bets are off.

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm not looking to get flamed and am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance, I'm just looking for info.

You think Sammy Squid is going to do any maintenance on his FQZR600ZZ? Some
people take care of their equipment, some don't.

[Jeremy Chavers]

Post by bowman

Post by Stanley DeFisher
For example, do pushrod
actuated engines, in motorcycle applications, have more frequent
maintenance needs, or necessitate rebuilding more often than dual
overhead cam motors?

Assuming a stock top end, there is no specific maintenance. This cannot be
said about many OHC engines. I'm on an elist where a FAQ is: "do I really
really have to have the valves adjusted at 500 miles. The dealer charges
$150?" This questions sometimes occurs in sequence with "did the dealer
really adjust the valves?"
Considering the joys of maintaining a four cylinder, shim under bucket
design with four or more valves per cylinder, I'd hazard a guess far more
of these are out of adjustment.
Most BMWs, btw, are pushrod engines. Almost vestigial pushrods, but there
just the same.
If the engine has been modified, all bets are off.

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm not looking to get flamed and am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance, I'm just looking for info.

You think Sammy Squid is going to do any maintenance on his FQZR600ZZ? Some
people take care of their equipment, some don't.

That's why I'm quite fond of my 1985 CB650SCF - hydraulic lifters, shaft
drive, no cam chain adjustment, hydraulic clutch. It's less maintenance
than my '79 GMC 4x4! (and it gets about 5 times the fuel economy as the
beast)

[Dave]

Harley and Reliability in one sentence?? Oxymoron?

[unknown]

Lot of haters out there.

Harleys, like any other bike, are as reliable as YOU make them.

Traded my '95 Sportster with almost 100,000 miles on it, still running strong
(complete transparency, drag raced it for 3 years and ended up blowing a head
gaskget, but that's minor shit).

I've owned 4 Honda's, a Kawasaki, and now three Harleys (own two right now).
They are all the same, just different.

If you like a brand, keep with that brand. Badmouthing the others is so
immature anymore. go back to high-school if you can't run with adults.

Post by Dave
Harley and Reliability in one sentence?? Oxymoron?

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[The Family]

Sorry !!!

Thank you for the few legitimate responses to my question. "The Family"

et.

al. completely missed the point when I said "I am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance." Clearly when people buy any vehicle, they have different
things in mind. Someone who buys (just a couple of arbitrary examples) an
Escalade is certaintly more concerned with something like image than

someone

who buys a minivan. Someone who buys, for example, a Toyota Corolla

clearly

has gas mileage and reliability (only two possible considerations) in mind
over someone who buys a Ferrari so please don't whine to me about "Harley
people care for their motorcycles too." that was not my intended point

and

your inference was incorrect. Of course a lot of people both Harley and
non-Harley people alike will and won't maintain their machines, I just
wanted to know about any inherent weaknesses is all. Thanks.

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm curious about Harley reliability and am unable to find much on
this matter. I'm trying to find out, perhaps from riders and/or
mechanics (preferably unbiased opinions if they exist), if there are
inherent weaknesses, besides vibration and associated bearing problems,
that necessitate top end rebuilds of Harley Davidson motors more often
than their German or Japanese counterparts. For example, do pushrod
actuated engines, in motorcycle applications, have more frequent
maintenance needs, or necessitate rebuilding more often than dual
overhead cam motors? I have heard some ridiculously low numbers quoted
for top end rebuild times on custom Harleys, but have no experience with
this matter and suspect that short times in between top end rebuilds may
often be a function of motors which have been heavily breathed on and
are, by their very nature, mechanically less reliable than a lower
horsepower motor. I'm not looking to get flamed and am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance, I'm just looking for info. Thanks.

[Kim Neubert]

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm curious about Harley reliability and am unable to find much on
this matter. I'm trying to find out, perhaps from riders and/or
mechanics (preferably unbiased opinions if they exist), if there are
inherent weaknesses, besides vibration and associated bearing problems,
that necessitate top end rebuilds of Harley Davidson motors more often
than their German or Japanese counterparts. For example, do pushrod
actuated engines, in motorcycle applications, have more frequent
maintenance needs, or necessitate rebuilding more often than dual
overhead cam motors? I have heard some ridiculously low numbers quoted
for top end rebuild times on custom Harleys, but have no experience with
this matter and suspect that short times in between top end rebuilds may
often be a function of motors which have been heavily breathed on and
are, by their very nature, mechanically less reliable than a lower
horsepower motor. I'm not looking to get flamed and am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance, I'm just looking for info. Thanks.

My current Evo powered Harley has 80,000 miles with no engine failures.
That's more than any other bike I've owned, which includes too many Japanese
and British to list. I think pushrod engines require less maintenance than
overhead cams. Part of that is probably due to the fact they turn way less
rpm.

Noob

[unknown]

Ok, here is my experience, from the standpoint of having owned numerous
brands of motorcycle.
They've all been reliable for me, depending primarily on how hard I beat on
them, but the longest lasting motorcycle I've owned (so far) has been the
lowly Harley-Davidson XLH 1200 (1995 Sportster, if you don't know). I had it
for twenty years before trading it Year before last for my current bike.
That Sporty had 27years, about 80,000 miles, two crashes by me (I'm sure it
was crashed once before I owned it), and three years of 1/8th mile drag
racing, and only suffered a blown head gasket and two exhaust system
failures. I changed the oil (yearly, regardless of miles) and plugs, but
that's about it.
From what I've seen of other people's bikes, both Harley and Japanese (don't
know anyone personally with Brit bikes or Dukes), those that kept them CLOSE
to stock never had many issues, but the more they modded their bikes, the
more they complained about reliability.

I'm right now tearing down a 1975 Sportster that has developed shifting
problems after 48 short years...but I really don't know it's history before I
aquired it, so I can't tell you how reliable it was before I got it 5 years
ago (it's always started for me, though).

Take it for what it's worth.

--Frozen

Post by Kim Neubert

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm curious about Harley reliability and am unable to find much on
this matter. I'm trying to find out, perhaps from riders and/or
mechanics (preferably unbiased opinions if they exist), if there are
inherent weaknesses, besides vibration and associated bearing problems,
that necessitate top end rebuilds of Harley Davidson motors more often
than their German or Japanese counterparts. For example, do pushrod
actuated engines, in motorcycle applications, have more frequent
maintenance needs, or necessitate rebuilding more often than dual
overhead cam motors? I have heard some ridiculously low numbers quoted
for top end rebuild times on custom Harleys, but have no experience with
this matter and suspect that short times in between top end rebuilds may
often be a function of motors which have been heavily breathed on and
are, by their very nature, mechanically less reliable than a lower
horsepower motor. I'm not looking to get flamed and am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance, I'm just looking for info. Thanks.

My current Evo powered Harley has 80,000 miles with no engine failures.
That's more than any other bike I've owned, which includes too many Japanese
and British to list. I think pushrod engines require less maintenance than
overhead cams. Part of that is probably due to the fact they turn way less
rpm.
Noob

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[Doug]

Post by Stanley DeFisher
I'm curious about Harley reliability and am unable to find much on
this matter. I'm trying to find out, perhaps from riders and/or
mechanics (preferably unbiased opinions if they exist), if there are
inherent weaknesses, besides vibration and associated bearing problems,
that necessitate top end rebuilds of Harley Davidson motors more often
than their German or Japanese counterparts. For example, do pushrod
actuated engines, in motorcycle applications, have more frequent
maintenance needs, or necessitate rebuilding more often than dual
overhead cam motors? I have heard some ridiculously low numbers quoted
for top end rebuild times on custom Harleys, but have no experience with
this matter and suspect that short times in between top end rebuilds may
often be a function of motors which have been heavily breathed on and
are, by their very nature, mechanically less reliable than a lower
horsepower motor. I'm not looking to get flamed and am well aware that
the type of people who usually buy Harleys could care less about
maintenance, I'm just looking for info. Thanks.

Any Harley with the Evolution or Twin Cam motor will give you long
trouble free service IF it is properly cared for and not abused. Even
after performance engine work they will hold up as well as a stock
motor.

Like all brands of motorcycles there are exceptions and some horror
stories, but that would also apply to cars and boats as well.

I'm sure there are quite a few Harley riders that would rather do
*anything* else than work on there bikes, but most of the riders I
know go to extremes doing preventitive maintainence on their bikes. I
wish I had a dime for every Harley oil filter that has been replaced
before it's time.

The old Harley (pre-1984) deserved the bad reputation they earned the
company. They shook themselves to death and puked oil out of every
orifice.
I started riding them back in 1969 and speak from experience.
The new models are much better though and rarely require an
adjustment.

After one summer of riding a hot rodded 1996 ninety six cubic inch FLH
Classic for 14,000 miles I reflected back on my maintainence book. I
have several bikes so I keep a log on each one so I can keep track of
things like oil changes, carb jetting etc.

Over the 14,000 miles I had changed oil 5 times, filter 3 times,
adjusted the primary chain twice, the clutch cable once and replaced
the back tire once and properly aimed the headlight.
I doubt any other brand of motorcycle would have required less
maintainence over the same period.

I'm not brand loyal and I could care less about image, in fact, I
really dislike the whole Harley *biker* image thing, and I do own some
other brands, but if I could only keep one motorcycle, it would be a
Harley-Davidson.
Doug

[Ken-n-Jill]

Are they as durable?

If any one was taking a survey I own 2 '78 KZ650's one has 60K on it the
other about 20K. the engines are bullit proof it's just every thing around
it that rots or goes to hell.
I am a little big for these bikes now and am thinking of buying one of those
bike in a box kits.
I don't need to go fast anymore I just want somthing diffrent. Cheers

[Matthew Lundberg]

Post by Ken-n-Jill
Are they as durable?
If any one was taking a survey I own 2 '78 KZ650's one has 60K on it the
other about 20K. the engines are bullit proof it's just every thing around
it that rots or goes to hell.
I am a little big for these bikes now and am thinking of buying one of those
bike in a box kits.
I don't need to go fast anymore I just want somthing diffrent. Cheers

I'm guessing that you're talking about a H-D clone-in-a-box. S&S makes good
engines, but they're pricy. You can get an engine from H-D for less. If
you're thinking of eventually building the engine for more power, S&S is
the way to go. If you're going to stay mostly stock, H-D is fine.

Note that the sum of the aftermarket parts will exceed the price of a new
H-D motorcycle, but might be less than the price of the bike and any parts
that you then change or add. You probably knew this.

[Clutchman]

I have a 1885 BMW k100rs, I have taken 2 trips this summer, a little over
8,00 miles. I have changed the oil 2x. oh and put gas in it. it has 71K
miles on it. but it is due for a new rear tire too, to many miles at 120+
;-))

Wow. A 1885 BMW K100RS? No wonder your 2 trips were limited to 8 (I'm
assuming the you meant 8.00 instead of 8,00) miles! That thing must be
worth something to collectors. :-)

Clutchman

[Mark Hickey]

Post by Clutchman

I have a 1885 BMW k100rs, I have taken 2 trips this summer, a little over
8,00 miles. I have changed the oil 2x. oh and put gas in it. it has 71K
miles on it. but it is due for a new rear tire too, to many miles at 120+
;-))

Wow. A 1885 BMW K100RS? No wonder your 2 trips were limited to 8 (I'm
assuming the you meant 8.00 instead of 8,00) miles! That thing must be
worth something to collectors. :-)

He probably had to change the oil because it's what heats the water
into steam. I wonder where he'll find a new rear tire though - they
don't make 'em like they used to!

At first, I took 120+ to mean mph instead of years. Silly me.

Mark Hickey

[Mark]

It's very basic automotive technology that HEAT WILL KILL ANY ENGINE.
So if you buy a big engine that does not have a radiator (LIKE MOST
HARLEYS) then expect problems that over heating causes. Why anyone
buys one is beyond me. It's taken Harley 100 years to start to put
radiators in there bikes.
Why is there a Harley Dealer in every small towm? Harleys break down
in small towns too.
Why are Hatrley dealers open on the weekend? Harleys break down on the
weekend too.....

[Sounds Like A Porsche]

Post by Mark
It's very basic automotive technology that HEAT WILL KILL ANY ENGINE.
So if you buy a big engine that does not have a radiator (LIKE MOST
HARLEYS) then expect problems that over heating causes. Why anyone
buys one is beyond me. It's taken Harley 100 years to start to put
radiators in there bikes.
Why is there a Harley Dealer in every small towm? Harleys break down
in small towns too.
Why are Hatrley dealers open on the weekend? Harleys break down on the
weekend too.....

Mark, you can't be that stupid and survive the day to day requirements to
sustain a reasonable existence on this planet. Take the 'stupid pill' only
on the weekend... NOT every day.

Dave

[LJ]

Post by Sounds Like A Porsche

Post by Mark
It's very basic automotive technology that HEAT WILL KILL ANY ENGINE.
So if you buy a big engine that does not have a radiator (LIKE MOST
HARLEYS) then expect problems that over heating causes. Why anyone
buys one is beyond me. It's taken Harley 100 years to start to put
radiators in there bikes.
Why is there a Harley Dealer in every small towm? Harleys break down
in small towns too.
Why are Hatrley dealers open on the weekend? Harleys break down on the
weekend too.....

Mark, you can't be that stupid and survive the day to day requirements to
sustain a reasonable existence on this planet. Take the 'stupid pill' only
on the weekend... NOT every day.
Dave

9 out of 10 Harley's built are still on the road...

..the tenth guy made it home.

just kidding

[bartshumandad]

Post by Mark
It's very basic automotive technology that HEAT WILL KILL ANY ENGINE.
So if you buy a big engine that does not have a radiator (LIKE MOST
HARLEYS) then expect problems that over heating causes. Why anyone
buys one is beyond me. It's taken Harley 100 years to start to put
radiators in there bikes.
Why is there a Harley Dealer in every small towm? Harleys break down
in small towns too.
Why are Hatrley dealers open on the weekend? Harleys break down on the
weekend too.....

Huh?
How many aircooled motorcycles of any origin have been produced over the
last century? How many of them have suffered from overheating?
In my experience, the only bikes that have overheating problems tend to
be watercooled ones, eg Kawasaki's GPZ 900 and siblings.

cheers
Steve

[Mark Hickey]

Post by Mark
It's very basic automotive technology that HEAT WILL KILL ANY ENGINE.
So if you buy a big engine that does not have a radiator (LIKE MOST
HARLEYS) then expect problems that over heating causes. Why anyone
buys one is beyond me. It's taken Harley 100 years to start to put
radiators in there bikes.

I got a laugh out of my Harley-riding buddy gushing about the V-Rod.

"It's water cooled, got rubber-isolated motor mounts, and is really
fast."

Nice... but I had to tell him my 20 year old Honda had all that too,
and would still smoke the V-Rod by half a second in the quarter mile.

But it did run hot - but I live in Phoenix, so EVERYTHING runs hot...
except my BMW K100RS of course. The fan almost never even has to kick
on.

Mark Hickey