TUbliss rimlocks: Any experiences with them?

[User Bp]

Is anybody willing to report first-hand experience with TUbliss
pneumatic rimlocks? http://nuetech.com/tubliss/#performance ?

The idea seems good, but most of the online
references I can find have a distinctly promotional feel. I'd
like to find some less flashy endorsements if they exist.

I'm not particularly interested in low pressure operation but
am very much interested in puncture resistance and ease of
repair/plugging.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

[Mark Olson]

Post by User Bp
Is anybody willing to report first-hand experience with TUbliss
pneumatic rimlocks? http://nuetech.com/tubliss/#performance ?
The idea seems good, but most of the online
references I can find have a distinctly promotional feel. I'd
like to find some less flashy endorsements if they exist.
I'm not particularly interested in low pressure operation but
am very much interested in puncture resistance and ease of
repair/plugging.

I haven't used this and I have only had a taste of riding on
dirt, a couple of weeks off road last September in the western
USA.

What bike, type of riding, terrain, etc.?

[IdaSpode]

Post by User Bp
Is anybody willing to report first-hand experience with TUbliss
pneumatic rimlocks? http://nuetech.com/tubliss/#performance ?
The idea seems good, but most of the online
references I can find have a distinctly promotional feel. I'd
like to find some less flashy endorsements if they exist.
I'm not particularly interested in low pressure operation but
am very much interested in puncture resistance and ease of
repair/plugging.
Thanks for reading,
bob prohaska

You might try http://www.thumpertalk.com/ for some first hand
opinions.

DJ

[Mark Olson]

Post by IdaSpode

Post by User Bp
Is anybody willing to report first-hand experience with TUbliss
pneumatic rimlocks? http://nuetech.com/tubliss/#performance ?
The idea seems good, but most of the online
references I can find have a distinctly promotional feel. I'd
like to find some less flashy endorsements if they exist.
I'm not particularly interested in low pressure operation but
am very much interested in puncture resistance and ease of
repair/plugging.
Thanks for reading,
bob prohaska

You might try http://www.thumpertalk.com/ for some first hand
opinions.

I found this, which might be helpful to Bob.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831867

[User Bp]

Post by Mark Olson
I found this, which might be helpful to Bob.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831867

Eventually I found a thread at
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560599 and
read all 30 pages of it. Oddly enough, I'm still on the fence.
The bulk of problems seem to be air loss, either in the lock
bladder or between the inner "tire" and road tire. Basically
installation issues. But, issues are issues, and I'm not exempt.


Never had a flat on my tubeless bikes, but I carry a plug kit
on both. Several flats on both tubed bikes, but they all happend
in the garage, basically from me leaving rimlock holes unplugged.
I'm very glad they were discovered at (or very close to) home.

Fixing a tube in the field isn't something I look forward to and
I marvel at the folks who replace tubes on the trail. Hard enough
in the garage to suit me 8-)

Schemes that try to seal the tire to the rim look utterly hopeless:
The DRZ400s has radial grooves to make the rim bite the bead,
making a good seal out of the question even if the spoke holes are
sealed.

BMW did it right, but at very high cost from what I've read, both
for purchase and repair. Nobody else seems to use the scheme, despite
apparent superiority.

Sounds like nobody here has tried it, maybe I'll have to be the
guinea pig.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by User Bp
BMW did it right, but at very high cost from what I've read, both
for purchase and repair. Nobody else seems to use the scheme, despite
apparent superiority.

In this photo of a BMW wheel after an accident, the rim and
spokes were amazingly effective in transmitting the force of
an impact. Trashed everything else in sight, but the rim and
spokes were unscathed.

http://tinyurl.com/n6tdt4e

[User Bp]

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
In this photo of a BMW wheel after an accident, the rim and
spokes were amazingly effective in transmitting the force of
an impact. Trashed everything else in sight, but the rim and
spokes were unscathed.
http://tinyurl.com/n6tdt4e

Looks like a fork leg, a broken axle and a broken disk hub.
Any information on what happened? Might not be the wheel's
fault 8-)

bob prohaska

[Mark Olson]

Post by User Bp

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
In this photo of a BMW wheel after an accident, the rim and
spokes were amazingly effective in transmitting the force of
an impact. Trashed everything else in sight, but the rim and
spokes were unscathed.
http://tinyurl.com/n6tdt4e

Looks like a fork leg, a broken axle and a broken disk hub.
Any information on what happened? Might not be the wheel's
fault 8-)

I was thinking the same thing, how on earth could the rim stay
undamaged, after having transmitted enough force to break the
axle?

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by Mark Olson

Post by User Bp

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
In this photo of a BMW wheel after an accident, the rim and
spokes were amazingly effective in transmitting the force of
an impact. Trashed everything else in sight, but the rim and
spokes were unscathed.
http://tinyurl.com/n6tdt4e

Looks like a fork leg, a broken axle and a broken disk hub.
Any information on what happened? Might not be the wheel's
fault 8-)

I was thinking the same thing, how on earth could the rim stay
undamaged, after having transmitted enough force to break the
axle?

While the tubeless tire was still holding air afterwards, the
rim was very definitely out of true.

[Mark Olson]

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Mark Olson

Post by User Bp

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
In this photo of a BMW wheel after an accident, the rim and
spokes were amazingly effective in transmitting the force of
an impact. Trashed everything else in sight, but the rim and
spokes were unscathed.
http://tinyurl.com/n6tdt4e

Looks like a fork leg, a broken axle and a broken disk hub.
Any information on what happened? Might not be the wheel's
fault 8-)

I was thinking the same thing, how on earth could the rim stay
undamaged, after having transmitted enough force to break the
axle?

While the tubeless tire was still holding air afterwards, the
rim was very definitely out of true.

OIC.

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Mark Olson

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
http://tinyurl.com/n6tdt4e

I was thinking the same thing, how on earth could the rim stay
undamaged, after having transmitted enough force to break the
axle?

While the tubeless tire was still holding air afterwards, the
rim was very definitely out of true.

OIC.

Well since you asked :-), I think spoked wheels would fall into
two classes:

wagon wheel (spokes and hub in compression, rim under tension ?)

and

bicycle wheel (spokes and hub under tension, while the rim would
seem to be in compression)

I believe the bicycle wheel distributes loads across multiple spokes
while the wagon wheel does not. In this case, the tension spoke design
seems to have done a remarkably good job of distributing impact force
all around the rim and transmitting all the force via the spokes down
to the hub, axle, and forks.

There was apparently some side force as well, as the axle snapped right
next to one fork leg. Per the accident report, I was busy rolling across
the hood of the car and down the street, so I was unable to observe this
in detail.

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by User Bp

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
In this photo of a BMW wheel after an accident, the rim and
spokes were amazingly effective in transmitting the force of
an impact. Trashed everything else in sight, but the rim and
spokes were unscathed.
http://tinyurl.com/n6tdt4e

Looks like a fork leg, a broken axle and a broken disk hub.
Any information on what happened? Might not be the wheel's
fault 8-)
bob prohaska

Motorcycle vs. Mercedes. The 73 year old driver "didn't see
the motorcycle but was driving really slowly and carefully"
when he made the left turn across my path.

Having later had a chance to observe Asian driving protocol,
I realize that the accident was partly my fault for failing
to continuously beep my horn while traveling through an
intersection.

[User Bp]

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Motorcycle vs. Mercedes. The 73 year old driver "didn't see
the motorcycle but was driving really slowly and carefully"
when he made the left turn across my path.

Glad you survived the encounter, hope the damage isn't
irreparable.

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Having later had a chance to observe Asian driving protocol,
I realize that the accident was partly my fault for failing
to continuously beep my horn while traveling through an
intersection.

Just out of curiosity, were you running a headlight modulator?
It's likely the guy could see, his hearing seems less certain.

bob prohaska

[Mark Olson]

Post by User Bp
It's likely the guy could see, his hearing seems less certain.

You're giving the average motorist far, far too much credit.

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by User Bp

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Motorcycle vs. Mercedes. The 73 year old driver "didn't see
the motorcycle but was driving really slowly and carefully"
when he made the left turn across my path.

Glad you survived the encounter, hope the damage isn't
irreparable.

Forks, wheel hub, front axle front engine casing and frame.
Every damn thing but the spoked rim and tubeless tire

Post by User Bp

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Having later had a chance to observe Asian driving protocol,
I realize that the accident was partly my fault for failing
to continuously beep my horn while traveling through an
intersection.

Just out of curiosity, were you running a headlight modulator?
It's likely the guy could see, his hearing seems less certain.

Having observed traffic in his homeland, I've come to believe they
drive more by echo location than anything else. In another Asian
country, I'd expressed concern that the chain on a rental bike was
about to expire. The guide said he wasn't worried about the chain
but insisted the bike go back to the shop because the horn wasn't
working properly. How else would you warn oncoming traffic that
they were seconds away from a head on ?

I have since then added lots of lights to the replacement bike, but
I'm not optimistic. I trust my loud(ish) pipes more, 'cause you
can't be hearing in a different direction.

Post by User Bp
bob prohaska

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by User Bp
Is anybody willing to report first-hand experience with TUbliss
pneumatic rimlocks? http://nuetech.com/tubliss/#performance ?
The idea seems good, but most of the online
references I can find have a distinctly promotional feel. I'd
like to find some less flashy endorsements if they exist.
I'm not particularly interested in low pressure operation but
am very much interested in puncture resistance and ease of
repair/plugging.
Thanks for reading,
bob prohaska

No experience with this particular product, but there are
numerous conversion options out there:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tubeless+motorcycle+conversion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274533

The BMW GS comes with tubeless spoked wheels and I definitely like
the ability to plug a punctured tire. The advrider method shown
above using goop certainly looked intriguing and it's clearly
low cost. The only person I know of who did this conversion sent
the wheel off to a shop to have it done.

In short, a tubeless conversion looks like a good idea but I'd
research the various different methods of accomplishing it.

[Doug Payne]

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
No experience with this particular product, but there are
https://www.google.com/search?q=tubeless+motorcycle+conversion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274533
The BMW GS comes with tubeless spoked wheels and I definitely like
the ability to plug a punctured tire. The advrider method shown
above using goop certainly looked intriguing and it's clearly
low cost. The only person I know of who did this conversion sent
the wheel off to a shop to have it done.
In short, a tubeless conversion looks like a good idea but I'd
research the various different methods of accomplishing it.

A caveat on sealing spoke nipples to create a 'tubeless' rim.

Be sure that the rim has a bead groove that is capable of holding and
sealing a tubeless tire. Not all do.

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by Doug Payne

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
No experience with this particular product, but there are
https://www.google.com/search?q=tubeless+motorcycle+conversion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274533
The BMW GS comes with tubeless spoked wheels and I definitely like
the ability to plug a punctured tire. The advrider method shown
above using goop certainly looked intriguing and it's clearly
low cost. The only person I know of who did this conversion sent
the wheel off to a shop to have it done.
In short, a tubeless conversion looks like a good idea but I'd
research the various different methods of accomplishing it.

A caveat on sealing spoke nipples to create a 'tubeless' rim.
Be sure that the rim has a bead groove that is capable of holding and
sealing a tubeless tire. Not all do.

Absolutely !!

[User Bp]

(crossposted to rec.motorcycles.dirt in hopes of enlightenment)

Post by Doug Payne
A caveat on sealing spoke nipples to create a 'tubeless' rim.
Be sure that the rim has a bead groove that is capable of holding and
sealing a tubeless tire. Not all do.

The TuBliss scheme seems to get around the need for a safety rim. The
inner liner expands against the inside of the bead, sealing it and
clamping it against the rim. The air seal is between the TuBliss liner
and the inside of the bead, so a sealing rim isn't needed at all.

If the tire goes flat it behaves like a safety-rim tubeless tire, if
the TuBliss goes flat it's no worse (which is to say very bad) than
a flat conventional tube.

Two things give pause. Wrestling tires onto the rims is a bit of a
struggle, so damage to the TuBliss is a worry. Air leakage is another
concern. The Tubliss liner has to seal around the entire cicumference of
both tire beads. The local pressure is only about 50 lbs per inch of bead.
Accumulated around an 18 inch rim that's ample clamp force. Locally, the
surfaces have to be very clean and smooth to seal reasonably well. I kinda
wonder just how hard it is to get a seal that's rideable for a week or two.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

[User Bp]

In case anybody's curious, the TuBliss inserts are installed and appear to
hold air reasonably well. Not clear yet how they compare with tubes.

One very great surprise was the tightness of the new tires on the rim. The
rear 120/80-18 rear required about 50 psi to fully seat. The front 90/90-21
required very close to 80 psi. Once seated and allowed to stretch for a day
they will re-seat somewhere around sidewall pressure. Most likely, after a
month or two the beads will remain seated when deflated entirely.

I wrote to Avon asking what "normal" bead seat pressure should be, but have
so far gotten no useful answer. Twice sidewall pressure seems reasonable,
but three times strikes me as a prudent upper limit. The front came closer
than I like.

Does anybody have reliable numbers, from any manufacturer?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska